Looking at the Queries...

When people find this blog of the corresponding website using a search engine, they type in the real question (most of the time) and end up a number of places, but here for at least a moment. I wonder sometimes what they expect to hear/see when they see the title.

Here are a few of the queries and my responses:

"ex trying to make me pay child support"
Yes, if you are the father of the child this is expected. Feel free to e-mail me and give me more details, but what you need to work with is payments based upon the guidelines. I am not saying the guidelines are ideal all the time, but you need to plan on paying that much.

"where does FRO payments show on T4"
These days, it doesn't. It's income that's already taxed (payor) and the payee does not need to pay the taxes. If you are the payor... No, you don't get to claim it.

"Im laid off do i have to pay child support ontario"
"being laid off and child support payments in ontario"
Yes, but that doesn't mean you can't get a reduction. The problem is that you need to either have agreement from the payee or go to court (expensive) and ask for a reduction (while maintaining the current support levels). In this economy the judges should be understanding, but they are not always the most "with-it" and may not appreciate the gravity of your situation. You will need to demonstrate that you are doing everything you can to find gainful (full) employment.

"fro arrears repayment"
Hmmm, a tad vague.

"ontario child support if I go on unemployment"
See above.

"correct forms to fill out to stop child support when a child turns 18 in Ontario"
I'll find this, check back soon (here).

"CRA custodial parent clain babysitting child care cost cost taxes"
Yes, you get to claim them. No it's not entirely fair because if the payor is covering his share you should really be sharing the after-tax cost of babysitting... and babysitting better (really) mean child care, not little suzie next door.

"Child Support Stopping Payment Reductions Ontario"
Huh? Please e-mail me or comment with more information.

"when does child support end university"
This, for the most part, depends on your child support agreement. You should be setting expectations that the child pay a [significant] portion of their own costs, use OSAP, etc. That said, if your agreement states you're supposed to you'll need to go to couyrt to justify your inability to cover this cost. I do home your child doesn't want to become a doctor or lawyer!

I hope this helps.

I suggest FAIRNESS... a letter from a reader:

"Lisa" writes:

Seems to be a lot of talk about undue hardship and the guy getting screwed well how about this one:

My ex moves 5 hours away from our home only to say a year later that he does not want to be married anymore. I had left my good paying job (commissioned sales so you can imagine how long it takes to make a good life and build a client base) my family my home and friends. So I moved back with his blessing. We had the house reviewed and came up with a fair amount to give me and Off I went with the kids. Along with a promise to get 800/month and ½ a daycare costs (only after school as I made arrangements to start later to avoid costs in the am) He drives for about 4 months alternate weekends to see the kids. He then says I need to drive 50% of the way and I agree to 25% there and 50% on the return. He says ok then a few months later he says nope 50% or I will cut your child support! This is after he already stopped paying his ½ of a sitter which was 60/month. I could see where this was going and he became abusive to the point that we were referred to family counseling thru the police. In hind sight that must have been when he discovered his girlfriend was pregnant!

So it was time to get a lawyer and try to get things sorted out! After way too much money and time we have a court order for 1300 per month and he can have access when he wants (which is never) and must take them for 4 weeks in the summer and pay their costs. Well he wants only one and wont pay for the others camp costs! I have already taken my 4 weeks off and have no more time left to take vacations so had to place children in camp since they were 11 and 7. My ex said that they 11 year old could stay home!!!! At any rate he now has two children with his new spouse (not married) and all in a span of three years! Fast worker and now he got fired! They live in a very nice home that’s in her name drive a Yukon and a Mercedes she owns a business and says she only make 58! BS and he is studying to be a real estate agent. He was given 8 months severance and 8 weeks paid vacation-His ROE says he was dismissed. His plan is collect EI while he finishes studying and has asked me to take 350 per month for three months and then 700 after that! I said no and I would agree to 800 periods and then once he is making more money he can pay more! Which we know wont happen unless I go back to court. I am making a good salary but don’t have a live in partner have a small town house with a big mortgage (legal bills) and no help with extraordinary expenses. My ex insisted my son be in martial arts to help with his attitude which I do at 70 per months as a condition of seeing his son! That was a almost 2 years again and he still has not bothered to see him! My kids are heart broken…anyway I would like to know if you can help answer some questions. How successful would he be at claiming hardship and or getting his payments reduced?

Ya know Lisa, this bugs me.

Aside from the court order, which - when the right paperwork is filed with the FRO and what will become monthly arrears and payable at some point regardless of his income and employment situation - is fair based on his prior income. Before he pays less, he must either seek agreement from you and file the appropriate forms with the courts. If you do not agree he must go to court and file an Application to Vary for Child Support. This is costly (lawyers are not required but are a good idea) and may not be any more effective than the two of you coming to an agreement. The agreement might call for a yearly review (which is smart) and while his track record is such that he may not be consistent in support, once the FRO is involved, their powers of persuasion become very difficult to ignore.

Now, I dislike the FRO. I've been through their ringer and have come out the other side with a good game plan, "STAY PAID UP!"

I do not expect he would need to claim hardship, rather he will need to prove he is unemployable and unable to find work. This is difficult to prove, the judge may accommodate some temporary leniency, but you're better off to get this started with the FRO ASAP (perhaps even suggesting such and sending him to the FRO website on how they handle things before you do). His biggest concern will be IMPUTED INCOME, this is where the judge deems his earning are below what is reasonable for his skills and tells him he will impute his income, regardless of his actual income at a higher level. This is normal where the judge feels the payor is under-employed (not trying to work or working at something for less than is reasonable for his skills.

Keep the children out of it. Do not make your son's hobbys conditional, though I understand your motivation. Your boy's heartache is your first concern and ensuring he feels wanted and that while this is a poor decision on your ex's part, that the doors stay open.

I'm not a judge, nor am I a lawyer. I do know what the system is capable of, and the problems it causes (on both sides). You are best to seek mediation, agreement without the court's direction. I would suggest that it's better not to involve the FRO, but at some point your will have no choice. A friend of mine north of Toronto is a lawyer working at mediation of these sort of arrangements. They tell me it's better for the kids and likely better for you. Check your yellow pages and try to keep things peaceful.

I hope this helps.

globeandmail.com: Judge rips lawyers over excessive fees

globeandmail.com: Judge rips lawyers over excessive fees: "An Ontario judge has blasted the legal profession for running up excessive, unjustified bills that cause the ruination of ordinary people."

This was LONG overdue.

Running from Responsibility

A reader of this Blog asked what I would consider an embarrassing question, I'm going to paraphrase it in a completely biased manner, "How can I run away from supporting my children, what countries are out of reach of the FRO?"

What he really asked was, "How far does it go if you leave the country to avoid child support. e.g if you go to Europe or Asia. Will the FRO look for you?"

The FRO won't look for you, that's up to the recipient. They can hire someone to find you and then hand the information to the FRO. Which countries the FRO has an agreement with is another issue, they've got a good grasp on our nation's friends, but...

The real question is, "How on earth can you think of abandoning your child(ren) and your responsibility for child support?"

I know that the system can be hard on you, it's hard on the kids too. Aside from the legalities and the feelings of being trapped, the reality is you have a responsibility. I agree that there are circumstances that might be argued are unfair and would understand your comments, but the whole reason that the majority of those concerned with the FRO and the System that it supports is that people run and shirk their responsibility. It justifies the means of the FRO.

Now, I need to ask... "Why do you want to run away?" You posted anonymously, tell why you figure running is a good idea.

Did someone ask for a petition?

Okay, it's a survey, but... have a look on the right sidebar.

Understanding Parental Alienation

See also: http://familylawcourts.com

Children Heald Hostage on Amazon.com and Chapters/Indigo.

Part 1

Part 2

Talking to the FRO...

In light of a few comment I'd received over the last few weeks, some posted here, I thought I'd try to draw attention to the issue with the FRO. I received this response:

2008/9/10 @MCSS-G-DMCMB-MCSSINFO (CSS)

Thank you for your e-mail to the Ministry of Community and Social Services concerning court-ordered child support and fathers who want to be treated fairly.

I appreciate the time you have taken to write. However, the Family Responsibility Office's mandate is to enforce court-ordered child and spousal support obligations.

The issue you raise regarding fathers who want to be treated fairly by the courts with regard to child support falls under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of the Attorney General. You can obtain information on that ministry’s website at http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/divorce/support/.

You can also write to:

Ministry of the Attorney General
720 Bay Street, 11th Floor
Toronto, Ontario
M5G 2K1
Tel: 416-326-2220
www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/feedback.asp

Once again, thank you for writing.

Josh Vandezande

Manager, Correspondence Unit
Ministry of Community and Social Services

Okay then... We'll be following up with the AG. It seems the FRO doesn't accept any responsibility for treating good and responsible fathers like criminals.

Free and Clear... Finally.

I am not gloating or revelling any sort of triumph today, not really, after all it's not a win when you have spent 5 years paying off an unjust debt to your ex-wife in the form of arrears.

If you've read "my story" from my web site (which is down right now and I'll need to move it someplace stable very soon), the judge saddled me with a debt for no apparent reason other than I fought my case cheaper by being more self-sufficient. You could read into it that he felt I was under-employed, but that would suggest he's out of touch with [today's] reality or fundamentally incapable of an unbiased decision, but that wouldn't be very good for a judge, so I'll suggest it was due to legal fees.

Anyway, the point of this is, I'm done. No, not done paying support, but done paying off this arrears. It's not Christmas. No, I didn't wait this year, I thought this was a nice reward for 3+ weeks of time with my kids this summer. I wonder what the next few weeks will bring?

It's a good feeling, being able to look at your savings and know that it's all yours, not on hold or accumulating for someone else's benefit.

Court Trumps Parenting but at what cost?

Add this to my pile of concerns over the intelligence of our courts and judges that preside therein: A Quebec judge trumps a father's grounding of his daughter because she disobeyed him. WTF? Seriously, How bleeding stupid is this judge to take away the powers of parenting?

Court quashes dad's grounding of 12-year-old daughter: "A father plans to appeal after a Quebec court ruled that he didn't have the right to punish his 12-year-old daughter by banning her from a school trip."

The ability to guide children, directing them from the harms of life and teaching them the right path is certainly the parent's job and when the parent is incapable of this I can see the courts or a CAS agency step in, but this is utterly ridiculous!

What becomes more damaging is that the father, who has custody was not supported in role by the courts as the child then opted to live with her mother, thereby removing her from his ability to ground her. The judge said "there was no reason for the punishment to stand, since the girl was now living with her mother, even though the father has custody." This undermines the parental right to dicipline the daughter, if the mother doesn't have the maturity to forbid the change of custody, the courts should have at least realized this child was setting the family up for future control issues.

Using your children is not cool!

It's surprisingly recent that I posted about this sort of thing, but I guess my ex-wife doesn't read my blog. I can't say I blame her, it might piss her off to see I use lessons I've learned from our experience as education towards others.

DO NOT TRY TO INFLUENCE OR MANIPULATE YOUR CHILDREN TO DISLIKE THE OTHER PARENT!

DO NOT TRY TO INFLUENCE OR MANIPULATE YOUR CHILDREN TO DISLIKE THE OTHER PARENT!

DO NOT TRY TO INFLUENCE OR MANIPULATE YOUR CHILDREN TO DISLIKE THE OTHER PARENT!

Do you understand?

I was recently told by my daughter that my ex-wife showed her some "evidence" of the breakdown of our relationship. It was a photo/graphic that I had created for a friend that expressed love for them. Love has many forms, a friendship can have a significant amount of love and expressing it, telling the friend is not a bad thing. I did just that and my ex-wife went as far as to invade my privacy by snooping my e-mail and computer to discover this image. That I have forgiven her for, and while she may never understand the context of the message (image) the idea that she showed this to her. My daughter's belief is that my ex-wife was trying to influence her opinion of me, discredit me. She is likely true and I am proud of my daughter for reacting with contempt for the effort.

Why? The marriage ended "officially" in January 1999. The "evidence" has been kept for nearly 10 years as a manner of tearing open the wound as she sees fit. I will not re-iterate the real reason I walked away, but the reality she will never accept is that it was never for another woman. It was for my own self-respect.

You may hate your spouse, your kids shouldn't

It may be easy for you to ramble on about how much of a jerk your ex is, but don't let the kids hear it. They need to love their parents and both parents need to be supportive of this.

globeandmail.com: Judge rules father brainwashed son into hating mother: "A 13-year-old Ontario boy whose domineering father systematically brainwashed him into hating his mother can be flown against his will to a U.S. facility that deprograms children who suffer from parental alienation, an Ontario Superior Court judge has ruled."

globeandmail.com: Judge bars battling parents from court

This is a very exceptional example of how parents forget that the child needs to be priority #1!

globeandmail.com: Judge bars battling parents from court: "Their legal battle has centred mainly on terms of the access and it has dragged on for seven years, involving 12 different judges, a dozen lawyers, 25 court orders, 2,000 pages of court filings, three contempt motions and one suspended sentence."

I hope the parents realize this stupidity will hurt the child, and waste so much more.

False Abuse Claims Taint Divorce Process

This article brings to light a real problem, a not-so-idle threat that can taint your decision making process and the judge's views with a potentially unrecoverable foray into the criminal justice system.

globeandmail.com: Divorce's atomic bomb: false abuse allegations: "Falsely accusing a spouse of abuse leaves many black eyes in its wake: for the accused, the justice system and especially the kids"

My own divorce, the documents delivered to me so many years ago, had the ring of this because my wife and/or her lawyer felt it appropriate to suggest that was abusive and harrassing my ex-wife and the children. Two claims that are flatly false, but included to shake me and taint the judge's view as you step into a courtroom. I can safely say I was under the duress of those accusations when I made my initial deal for access and support, not at all concerned for the split of funds I signed away more financially than I should have. My hindsite is your advantage.

globeandmail.com: Ex seeks $50-million and alimony, challenges Quebec's common-law rules

globeandmail.com: Ex seeks $50-million and alimony, challenges Quebec's common-law rules: "MONTREAL — A Montreal woman is seeking $50-million and alimony payments from her wealthy ex, arguing she deserves the same rights as a former wife even though the pair lived together without getting married."

I have often been confused at the spirit of Alimony, aka Spousal Support. While the intent is to allow a spouse to continue living (indefinately) at a level he/she (mostly she is seems) has become accustomed to, there's no responsibility in the concept for the support to end.

I can suggest that there's cause for spousal support, for a time, perhaps until the children are grown (but that's Child Support, right?) but after that, there should be some responsibility for this spouse, common-law or not, to take up the reigns of her life and become self-sufficient.

I would suggest that anyone who does not, is simply irresponsible.

globeandmail.com: Mother Bear v. Ghost Dad: Nobody wins

globeandmail.com: Mother Bear v. Ghost Dad: Nobody wins: "But the truth is, mothers know their children better. We had them in and through our bodies. The attachment is primal."

There is very little truth in journalism... In fact the biases are as clear here as in the system that punishes non-custodial fathers for being men.

Read and Comment... flood this issue.